WE SHOULD FUCK. Not only did I not know what it meant; I have never even heard/seen it. It was a strong word, to be sure; a word with which most were uncomfortable, but by it’s use “subordinationism” was defeated. On the other hand, if Christ is of God's substance, then he always existed. Press J to jump to the feed. In A. D. 325 there was a true ecumenical council conducted in Nicaea, Asia Minor, with 318 bishops present, both Western and Eastern. C’est le cas ici. The only time “substance” enters into the picture is when a very physical Jesus Christ accomplishes very physical acts during His ministry. FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson. 613 pages. Catholic Word of the Day: HOMOOUSIOS, 01-30-10 CatholicReference.net ^ | 01-30-10 | Fr. Letztlich wurden im Römischen Reich ab dem späten 4. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. HOMOOUSIOS This article considers the history of the term (1) before Nicaea I, (2) at Nicaea I and afterward, and (3) in Christology. The need for Latin outweighs the convenience of using a local language. Funny that it never disappeared from the Spanish translations! the catholic church has taken the position that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are, in point of fact, three different hypostases. first, in the body of the creed itself, in the word “homoousios,” of the same being or essence; secondly, in the anathema at the end of the creed which states. According to J. N. D. Kelly only a “handful” of the bishops wholeheartedly welcomed the language of the creed (mostly because it was a non-biblical word). On ne le répètera jamais assez, face au mystère, les mots manquent. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the Christianity community. At the Council of Nicea it was homoousios that was at issue. Featured Term (selected at random): HOMOOUSIOS. All matter, to them, was made up of earth, wind, fire, or air. places the Holy Spirit in an equal position of worship with the Father and the Son; "Philippians 2:6-8, Answering Trinitarian Objections", "Answering Trinitarian Objections To The Oneness Faith", "Can the Deity of Jesus Be called The Son Of God? God is both immaterial and uncomposed. Orthodox Churches are also national in character and national languages usually do not borrow foreign words to the same extent as English, so I would imagine that an English-speaking Orthodox Church would very likely mention it. We aren't ever going to be one if we keep arguing about things that were settled 1700 years ago. Homoousios: of the same identical substance. By both of these “characteristic phrases” of the Creed of Nicaea the modern Trinitarian would be placed outside of orthodoxy. The reason why Latin should have never been abandoned in practice is precisely the fact that Latin ensured the same Missal and the same worship no matter where the Mass celebrated in the world. After all, the substance of God can have no beginning. (John 17:20-23; emphasis added.). HOMOOUSIOS A term first defined by the first general council of the Church to identify Christ's relationship to the Father. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. If the Son was the Word inside of the Father before his begetting in eternity past, then he is one substance with the Father. Wesensgleichheit, auch Homousie (von altgriechisch ὁμοῦσιος .mw-parser-output .Latn{font-family:"Akzidenz Grotesk","Arial","Avant Garde Gothic","Calibri","Futura","Geneva","Gill Sans","Helvetica","Lucida Grande","Lucida Sans Unicode","Lucida Grande","Stone Sans","Tahoma","Trebuchet","Univers","Verdana"}homoũsios; unkontrahiert ὁμοούσιος homooúsios ‚wesensgleich‘), ist ein Begriff der Trinitätslehre beziehungsweise des Bekenntnisses von Nicäa, der das Verhältnis Gottes, des Vaters, zu Jesus Christus, dem Sohn, beschreibt. English just messes things up, doesn’t it. This is really important. In that way men can likewise become “godly” by uniting in God’s purpose, working jointly to save the souls of men, and abiding the same standards of truth and righteousness. April 2020 um 14:07 Uhr bearbeitet. Auch einige Kaiser waren Nicht-Nicäer, so etwa Constantius II., der sich sehr in der Kirchenpolitik engagierte und später versuchte, die Kompromissformel des ‚homöischen‘ Glaubensbekenntnis von 360 zur Befriedung der Gegensätze durchzusetzen. English has many borrowed Latin words with changed meanings ("false friends" as it is called in linguistic circles). [CDATA[ All of this applied to Arius' theology at the Council of Nicea. It also provided for all Latins a way to participate and understand the Mass no matter where they happened to be and no matter how many divergent nationalities were attending. Our priest is planning several workshops on all the changes that are coming. Un catholique peut-il pratiquer le yoga . Homoiusios: of similar substance. Cela exprime aussi qu’il n’y pas deux ou trois Dieux distincts. “...only the Church scholars would know about it.”. These consisted of St. Alexander of Alexandria, St. Eustathius of Antioch, Marcellus of Ancyra, Osias of Cordova and a few others. In fact, during last week’s homily — he did one on the Mass — he did the “Through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault” and made us practice it. In AD 268 Paul of Samosata was condemned by the synod at Antioch on the strength of this very word. Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual Homoousios: of the same identical substance. Source for information on Homoousios: New Catholic … The wording that would in my opinion express the same unambigious menanig as homoousios does in Greek, or yedinosushtniy in Slavonic, would be "of the same nature" as the Father. Different versions of the same Missal created by translations into local languages, simply compounding the problem. If modern Trinintatianism is considered, the Creed of Nicaea is more a statement of Monarchianism than Trinitarianism. ... Was He God or not? https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wesensgleichheit&oldid=198855851, „Creative Commons Attribution/Share Alike“, Er ist, da aus dem Wesen Gott Vaters gezeugt, von gleicher Substanz wie Gott der Vater (das heißt: ihm gebühren die gleichen Attribute, die Gott, dem Vater, zukommen [z. Hard, fast. Trinitarian theology is not an advantage to Christian orthodoxy. Now, the word that is so identifiable with Monarchianism is being employed in the creed to protect orthodoxy from Arianism. There is a tendency to simply substitute Latin words in translations without considering the current meaning of the same words in English. Nicäa-Konstantinopel widersprachen. /r/Christianity is a subreddit to discuss Christianity and aspects of Christian life. Später entstanden weitere antitrinitarische Gruppen wie die Christadelphians, die Zeugen Jehovas und die Mormonen. Yes, that is the Latin rendition of homoousios, meaning of equal (homo) nature/essence (ousia). Earliest Judaism had a Divine Council with a Father who presided, a Divine Son, and angelic hosts. Like when he touches eyes to heal, or breaks bread, touches feet or after his resurrection. The Bible informs us that Christ is of substance. No, all men have the same ousia (substance, nature). Except for the Greeks, who pronounce it in the Creed every Sunday... ...γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο... ...only the Church scholars would know about it. (Gr. And secondly, the Arian bishops fully intended to remain in fellowship, although they had neither the numbers nor the influence to force an Arian document, they meant to force a creed that was ambiguous enough that they, too, could sign. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary Posted on 01/29/2010 9:00:06 AM PST by Salvation. The only time “substance” enters into the picture is when a very physical Jesus Christ accomplishes very physical acts during His ministry. Along with this event of the two Dionysii, there is Paul of Samosata. Convoqué en 451 par l'empereur Marcien à Chalcédoine (aujourd'hui Kadiköy), sur la rive asiatique du Bosphore, en face de Byzance, ce concile ne réunit que des participants orientaux, à l'exception de deux légats romains et de deux évêques africains exilés. Paul invoked ‘homoousios” as his explanation of the oneness of the Father and the Son. Learning the Latin of the Mass requires probably no more than a couple of hundred words. “life eternal” is to “know God” (John 17:3). I would venture to say that an average Russian or Serb or Arab Orthodox would not be familiar with the Greek term, but certainly with the concept.